Dr Ginosar Recalls

Conversations among Jewish Americans friends on this issue

Let’s start with a section of Tom Friedman attack:Op-Ed Columnist-NYT
March 14, 2010

Driving Drunk in Jerusalem
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
I am a big Joe Biden fan. The vice president is an indefatigable defender of U.S. interests abroad. So it pains me to say that on his recent trip to Israel, when Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu’s government rubbed his nose in some new housing plans for contested East Jerusalem, the vice president missed a chance to send a powerful public signal: He should have snapped his notebook shut, gotten right back on Air Force Two, flown home and left the following scribbled note behind: “Message from America to the Israeli government: Friends don’t let friends drive drunk. And right now, you’re driving drunk. You think you can embarrass your only true ally in the world, to satisfy some domestic political need, with no consequences? You have lost total contact with reality. Call us when you’re serious. We need to focus on building our…

1. My friend D. wrote:

Hi A!!!

I still think Biden and the U.S. were severely insulted by the declaration of Israel that it would build 1600 homes on disputed land. The offense was multiplied by the fact the an American VP had just shown up for talks with both sides regarding the establishment of borders and further negotiations. Also, does it seem plausible to you that Netanyahu didn't know that such an announcement by his housing minister was imminent? Nonsense! Question: Why did this happen?

Now is the time for this country to reconsider its relationship to Israel. We have many friends in the world. How about Israel becoming a friend like the UK or Canada and cease being a "special" friend to which we send billions and from who we get double talk regarding "peace".

D.

2. H replies: Sent: Monday,

Hi D.:
You have heard the cliché: Have two Jews debate, you get three opinions. What does this mean in regard of this incident: NOTHING!!
I just thought I would insert it in this message……………..

When you have a bunch of right wing Israelis in a coalition, they do what they want to do b/c they are a bunch of hard headed people who they think they are right. And maybe they are

I am taking a position 180 degrees from my traditional one. Regardless what the Israeli and Palestinian governments say, both recognize that it is a PR conflict. I believe both government leaders know there will be no solution during their lifetimes. I also believe that the Israeli government does not trust Obama.
Yes it was an embarrassment for Biden, but the Israeli government believes the American Jew will support Israel. And the Demos know Obama needs the financial backing of the American Jewish community. It’s a Mexican standoff.

Now, if you assume there will be no two-state partition, Israel has an absolutely legal right to build this development. It’s their land, not Palestine’s. So why should they ask anyone? Ergo, a PR conflict. Another tempest in a teapot

Also if a two-state solution comes to pass, the Arab nations will find another reason to “attack” Israel. This is just Phase One of a long-term program.

3. From: Matania To: H.

I agree with your assessment H.
It was a fight between parties and they use this opportunity to shaft Bibi. Biden knows it and is not so sensitive to lose his awareness of the internal struggle.
Tom Friedman has always been against Israel and always will be, after all he is a liberal Jew and believes that the Israelis did not do enough to placate the Arabs. the poor Arabs, they only murdered 23,000 Israelis to date, so they are really good people to trust.

God keep me away from liberal Jews and give me good solid Christians every time the Israelis have problems.
All US presidential advisers who were Jews were against Israeli's interest. I have read books about it.
We are our worse enemies.
You would not find this among Italians, or Irish, I bet, when they talk about their motherland—the “old country”.

4. From H:
Sent: Monday, March 15
If Obama thinks he can get a two-state solution, he’s dreaming. I wonder if Hillary was going through the motions considering what her husband tried to do but failed.

I’ve given up the thought; as I have said again and again, even if the Israel-Palestine conflict is actually solved, then the Arabs will find something else. The Arab leaders don’t want peace; they don’t give a rat’s ass about their people.

5. Matania wrote:
There is no way Palestinian leaders, nor do the leaders of the Arab world want real, Western style, peace with Israel. It is the only way they can distract their suffering people from their misery and from the possibility of focusing their attention on the dictatorial governments they have.

There is no real peace with Egypt and Jordan; it is simply the absence of war.

Just imagine that peace did happened, how will the Arab people react to the hundred years long lie that all their problems are external, due to the West, to the US, and their local friend -Israel?

It will open their eyes Lake the Egyptians officers caught by the Israelis in the 67 war.
The Israelis allowed several high level Egyptian officers to leave captivity and travel at their will, with a companion for money and security- all over Israel. They were shocked. All the lies they were told were stripped off!

6. Hi Mat!!!

If what you say is true regarding the feelings of the Palestinian leaders as they regard "peace" then why bother negotiating? Surely the Israeli's must clearly see the matter as you describe it. And most certainly, the Obama administration would be aware of actual Arab motives. So ... why are all these sophisticated people wasting so much time trying to bring off a compromise with a party that, in fact, does not want to change the status quo?
D.

7. Matania answer:
Because you have to go thru the motions, the same way we do so often in local and national politics. You give it your best, showing faith.

Some 8 years ago I wrote an analysis saying there is no way Arafat will accept peace and he is useless as a partner. Time to ignore him, and stop his agitation.
It took the Israelis about a year more to finally understand it and much longer for the Americans.
And also, you need to make all effort possible to move towards peace, as unlikely as it may be.

If you could even imagine the horrible life of most Egyptians you would know. In my youth they had 25 millions, now 65 millions on the same minimal real-estate, no advanced technology- almost nothing of economic value. More unbelievable agonies.

Real peace will cause revolutions.

8. From X:
HI

D. forgets that Israel is a special (very special) friend. Our Military technology gets a huge boost from scientist and engineers of Israeli companies and military. Israel is not a typical English speaking trading partner ally. Israel is the front line on the War on Terror. Period. Canada and The United Kingdom are allies yet do not occupy the role Israel has in this war against western civilization.

This is on par with his thinking about Iran. Naïve and dangerous.

As for Liberal Jews, some people hate their ethnicity in their hearts yet embrace it in there affairs. Black on Black crime or Asian on Asian crime are prime examples of the hatred. They prey on their own yet embrace their own to point out social inequity.
Obama is wary of Israel and Israel should tread carefully.
X.